Anonymous asked Staff ago In your essay (Pamphlet 2) about the windpipe, you clarified that the windpipe does not go into the heart and the liver, only to the lungs (and not as written in the Gemara). Rabbi Segal answered that the Gemara did not refer to the windpipe. My question is whether there is any Talmudic proof that the pipe they meant was the windpipe, and thus Rabbi Segal’s answer can be refuted.
Thanks in advance,
Shayni
jsadmin Staff answered 21 years ago
Dear Shayni,
This is another example of the way in which religious people have turned reason into the handmaiden of their whimsy.
Rabbi Segal tries, using “rational” tools, to save his rabbis from the simple anatomical errors which caused them to rule mistaken Halacha in the matter of tereifot.
The Talmud (Chulin 48b) discusses a case in which a needle was found in the liver of an animal. The Talmud concludes thus: if the needle is found in such a way that the point of the needle is outside the liver and the shaft of the needle is in the flesh of the liver, then it is most likely that the needle entered through the respiratory system which leads directly to the liver. This determination well matches Chazal’s understanding that the respiratory system, the windpipe, divides into three: one part goes to the lungs, one to the heart, and one to the liver (Chulin 45b).
It is clear that Chazal erred in understanding the respiratory system and concluded erroneous halachot.
But Rabbi Segal’s faith rests on the Sages of the Talmud and so he cannot accept that they erred on a Halachic matter. Therefore he tries to reconcile the words of the Talmud. In his passionate desire to reconcile the words of the Sages he did not notice that his excuses are ridiculous. In his opinion Chazal meant, in speaking of the pipe, the circulatory system and not the respiratory. In his opinion, the needle found in the liver came through the veins or arteries. But for some reason Segal did not notice that even if he ignores the meaning of the words and turns “pipe” into “artery” and “liver” into “artery.” it will not help him. In reality it is not possible for a needle to get to the liver via the blood vessels, to wander from the lungs to the right chamber of the heart and from there to travel, against the current, towards the liver.
As to your question of whether there is proof that the word “pipe” refers to the windpipe:
There is indeed. The word “pipe” means the windpipe. The Talmud (Chulin 28a) discusses the laws of ritually slaughtering fowl and rules that it is enough for the slaughterer to cut “either the esophagus or the pipe; Rav Ada the son of Ahava said the esophagus and not the pipe.” All agree that the word “pipe” in this topic refers to the windpipe. When the Talmud discusses the blood vessels it refers to them as “veins”: “R’yehuda said: with fowl, until he cuts the esophagus and the veins! Because the esophagus is close to the veins” (ibid.).
Sincerely,
Daat Emet
jsadmin Staff answered 21 years ago
Hello.
Your words are not sufficiently clear; and to put it bluntly, they are confused. You state that the significant questions are whether the Torah had been given at Sinai and whether people are obligated by it, and immediately after you say that you won’t get into whether it’s correct or not. You continue as one who draws the naive conclusion that G-d gave the Torah and handed it to the Sages, who interpreted it with no mistakes. As a student obedient to his faith, even if you have come up against “stumbles” you trust the rabbis to explain them away. Try to think about your words in depth until you come up with a more thought out philosophy.
In any case, Daat Emet deals with your last two questions and clearly shows that the Torah is a human creation, just like enlightened legal systems.
Sincerely,
Daat Emet