Dear Yaakov,



The group of stars known as the Pleiades and the group known as Orion are mentioned in the Scriptures:



“Who made the Pleiades and Orion” (Amos 5:8)

“Who made the Bear, Orion and the Pleiades” (Job 9:9).



Kimah was translated as the Pleiades in the Septuagint (a translation into Greek in the third century BCE) and the Vulgate (a translation into Latin at the end of the third century CE). It is a group of stars in which, under reasonable viewing conditions, 6-8 stars can be seen with the naked eye and 300 with a telescope (Encyclopedia Hebraica, entry stars pg. 674).

K’sil was translated as Orion in the Septuagint and the Vulgate: Orion (The Hunter) is known by as the arrow of the north because of its shape.



We will now bring the Talmudic text (Berachot 58a): “Samuel [a Babylonian Sage of the third century CE] contrasted two texts. It is written [in Job] ‘Who made the Bear, Orion, and the Pleiades.’ And it is written [in Amos], ‘Who made the Pleiades and Orion.’ How do we reconcile these? Were it not for the heat of Orion the world could not endure the cold of Pleiades; and were it not for the cold of Pleiades the world could not endure the heat of Orion…What is meant by Kimah [Pleiades]? Samuel said: About a hundred [ki’me-ah] stars. Some say they are close together; others say that they are scattered.”

Samuel claimed that the group of stars Kimah and K’sil influence Earth with their heat and cold, to the extent that the world could be endangered. What nonsense. The Pleiades are 410 light years from Earth, some 3,878,825,500,000,000 kilometers away! Orion is even farther away. They influence us with neither their heat nor their cold.

In addition, Samuel claims that the Pleiades comprise some 100 stars, but this is a mistake. Up till now some 300 stars have been observed in the Pleiades. But this is somewhat puzzling, for the naked eye can see at most 8 stars in this group; how did Samuel deduce that there are more stars there? the “Holy Spirit” didn’t reveal the secret to him, for the “Holy Spirit” knows that there are several hundred stars in the Pleiades. He had no telescope. I can think of two possibilities. One is that this was a novella Samuel took a blind chance on, like his other statements on astronomy. Most of these statements were erroneous, but some were less mistaken than others, and this is one of them. We can also explain his intent other than as it is usually understood, that Kimah has the warming power of a hundred stars.



Since we are dealing with Samuel the “astronomer,” the man who testified about himself that he was as expert on the paths of the stars as he was on the paths of his hometown Nahardea, we will bring his opinion on the cause of thunder: What is thunder? Samuel said, Clouds in a whirl in the sphere of the firmament. They collide with it and from the collision is created the sound of thunder” (Berachot 59a).

For more detail see Pamphlet 4 and the essay What the Sages Knew About the Shape of the Earth.



N.B. If you go to religious people and show them the mistakes of Samuel, they will answer you as did the Maharal of Prague (Judah Lowey the son of Betzalel, 1512-1609) in his book Be’er HaGulah, sixth well: “But they OBM [Chazal]spoke from the cause which obligates nature and one who denies this denies faith and the Torah…for their words are on the realm of the hidden and concealed.” That is how the theologians are: when the Holy Writ contradicts reason, they hide in inner feelings and the concealed.



Sincerely,



Daat Emet

Hello,



Thank you for your comments on science. We have never claimed that we are experts on science. We have learned our science from books or from experts who help us. We are expert in the literature of Chazal and our goal is to prove that it is a human creation.

As to your theory that Samuel had some simple technology that allowed him to se some hundred stars are in the Pleiades — it is possible that you are right. it does not seem to me to be likely, for the Sages liked to brag about the technology they had; given their silence, it would seem they had no such technology.

In general I tend to believe, given many of their statements, that Chazal simply said what they did based on their guesses, with no examination or experimentation. They explained verses or made memory shortcuts [as Samuel did for the Pleiades], etc. and drew “scientific” conclusions.

Now, to the main point of your words [which caused me to raise an eyebrow].

You agree that the Sages’ words do not match physical reality. As a religious person you think that “All religion is, basically, the giving of spiritual explanations for physical experience.” My question to you is that Judaism is a religion of action, of fulfilling the Torah and commandments. How do you know how to act, in practical terms? Perhaps they spoke of the internal nature of things? Maybe when they said you have to build a sukkah they meant something deep which requires “humility and an open mind to understand?

Even practical Halachic conclusions, based on reality, are mistaken. For example, Chazal calculated a circular sukkah based on an erroneous value of pi. See the essay What the Sages Knew About Pi. They ruled on the laws of niddah based on incorrect understandings on the cycle of blood and the causes of menstruation; see Pamphlet 7. There are many other, similar, instances. How do you explain these things to yourself?



Sincerely,



Daat Emet